You are, whether or not you acknowledge it or not, Pablo, being condescending. I think we may have all been a little guilty of it at some point or another in this ridiculously long thread with the comments about any of us being smarter than the other, but you WERE a big part of it. The problem was that we were speaking at each other rather than to. This is where I had the issue Chino. Again, I know what the reason behind it was, but you have always been great at stating the facts and that is what we need here, not insults or condescension.

Pablo, you need to stand for something and stop being so obtuse or ambiguous so as to propagate your agenda, whatever that may be. You state that you are against war and abortion, but you forget that the point of this particular thread was to discuss financial matters. You claim you are not a Socialist, but you give resounding credit to the success of the programs in this country that were based on the same. You seem to think that public service and socialist principles are somehow inextricably linked and yet, you repudiate our concerns about your Socialist affiliation. Tell us where you stand on the issue of an economic system, which is what we want here and then provide proof. You said “I could go on…There is a lot of proof that these circumstances are created.” Where is the proof? Where are the facts?

And nooooooo wrong again I would not be so ‘vain’ to believe that I have all the solutions. I could stand here and give you a laundry list of people and books that have contributed to my frame of mind (and I still seek more). I am here writing because I believe you are both important…everyone is in my framework. Do I think I have something to offer the two of you? Yes. Do I believe you are just as intelligent and capable as I am. Yes. The fact is that there are tons of facts, documents, events, books, etc. that are downplayed and hidden from the minds of the general public. I have been shown the way to these materials by others…now if you simply don’t ‘want shit’ from me, then that’s fine. Although, it is a bit unreasonable. I for one soak up every drop of data that I can establish as reliable(to my knowledge and that of others).

Now…can you please stop aligning me with those rejects….I think I already mentioned that I have long admired Gandhi and M.L.K. (check out his last speeches if you haven’t).
Oh and If you look back you will see that I have been telling you where I stand from the get…Why do I get the feeling I’m being juiced? Maybe I should listen to the advice of some and just stop…I hate force feeding. No, I am not calling you babies, but seriously… If I am too inferior intellectually in your books, then I’ll stop bothering you with what you call ‘useless’ and I’ll fade away like the song by Junior Byles. I mean Jeez, I was called misguided after one post! Do you know what my main gripe with political denominations is? The same as nationhood. That people end up defending them so vehemently that when they are confronted with something considered to be on the other side, they shut down, and don’t want to hear it. Socialists and I don’t fair too much better. Especially when they find I am against war and abortion

I may disagree with Pablo on many of his viewpoints, but I do agree that we need to get rid of the dirty talk and stick to the issues.

Now, Pablo, you asked my view on this… It just so happens that I had a discussion about this with my mom and my wife yesterday. It makes me angry when I see constantly following “suffering of the innocent, while others profit.” Have you ever seen the movie “Bruce Almighty”? Watch it. While on the surface it seems like another Jim Carrey comedy, it brings to light a very important message. God knows and Bruce finds out, that in life, there must be (for the greater good, as Obama says) some who suffer and others who profit. If you have seen the movie, do you remember when Bruce goes through his email at light-speed (after having been conferred with the powers of God) and simply says “yes” to every person’s prayers? What happened? Weather patterns changed, thousands of people won the lottery at the same time and so there was a bunch of angry people, the list goes on. Is this what you want? There can be no prosperity when equality or “liberty” is not properly understood. Equality can bring the most good to the most amount of people when equality means equal right to pursue ones own happiness… even if it means that others must suffer.

One last thing, if you truly believe in God, then you know that God giveth and taketh in ways that we as humans do not always understand. Chino would argue that I am an idiot for believing this, but I do believe it. I had a brother who died at the age of 2. Am I to believe that God is evil because surely if he was a benevolent God, he would not remove a 2 year old from this earth at such an early age. As I grew in faith, I began to understand that although I did not understand why an innocent young boy had to die, there must have been a greater purpose which this action filled in the greater scheme of things. Well, my friend, my mother, my father and I had to suffer very much so that others or maybe even one of us could avoid a calamity or Heaven forbid, prosper!

Nothing is free buddy! Not even from God! And certainly not from the government! What you view as goodness or benevolence through government intervention, is evil and increasing of dependence of the people, on big government!