Hello? Sleeping Giant?… WAKE UP!
This is the problem with America today. We have gotten so into the following...
You are either on the side that thinks that the previous administration did a terrible job, that we spent 8 years fighting a couple of wars that we did not need to be involved in, that we did nothing for this country, that we had an idiot for a president, that he couldn't pronounce "nuclear", that he messed up our economy with all the money spent on war, etc. The same side that praised the Senator from Illinois because he would be different, because he would bring about hope and change. Conversely, there are others who argue that the current administration is sending us into a tailspin of profligate spending, that we are going to fall to liberal ways, that we will have a nation of gays being married, of excessive abortions and other agenda items of the leftist platform.
Although these are important concerns and I do not presume to trivialize who marries who and who has who's baby or not. These things however, make us lose site of what is really important... that there is a tremendous change that is taking place in this country.
If I am sound conspiratorial it's because I believe that there is something wrong going on here. Think about it... all of us have lied at one point in our lives or another. What is the natural tendency when we are being less than truthful? To change the conversation or to deflect and focus on anything other than the lie at hand.
We sit around blaming the "other" party in a two-party system, all the while, the "political class" of the same parties, have the last laugh. Do you know why? Because it's all crap! We need to wake up!!
Just so you know, who can get married, who is racially profiling, who can have abortions, what socio-economic classes are being oppressed and which are prospering, who we are bailing out... none of it matters if we have our unalienable rights taken away from us, gradually but methodically with precision and persistence, this IS happening.
There are a few things that have been taking place for a long time, that support this argument.
Our guns are being taken away - Let us recall that our founding fathers contemplated that this is a fundamental right of the citizenry in order that they may protect themselves from an oppressive government. This is where the United States of America was born from! A tyrannical king who sought to rape the colonies of their property and maintain a jurisdiction so as to fatten up his pockets with the fruit of our blood and sweat.
We keep hearing that guns kill people... NO! PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE. Does a pencil misspell a word? These are simply tools used to facilitate the carrying out and action that is the result of intent. This is why we have laws in varying degrees... to determine intent... murder in the first, second, etc... or manslaughter.
The government has, in times of crisis, abridged our rights to arms under the guise of "the good of society." Just ask the people of New Orleans, who had their guns taken from them after Katrina hit. They were stripped one of their most basic and precious rights... protecting their property.
Recently, some or our "leaders" have stated that 90 percent of the guns used to perpetrate crimes in Mexico come from the United States... really? Please take a look at this (and believe me all you people on the far left, I have considered the source on this one, but I encourage you to post up an article that can negate or refute this one) http://www.foxnews.com/politics/elections/2009/04/02/myth-percent-guns-mexico-fraction-number-claimed/
An excerpt states the following:
In 2007-2008, according to ATF Special Agent William Newell, Mexico submitted 11,000 guns to the ATF for tracing. Close to 6,000 were successfully traced -- and of those, 90 percent -- 5,114 to be exact, according to testimony in Congress by William Hoover -- were found to have come from the U.S.
But in those same two years, according to the Mexican government, 29,000 guns were recovered at crime scenes.
In other words, 68 percent of the guns that were recovered were never submitted for tracing. And when you weed out the roughly 6,000 guns that could not be traced from the remaining 32 percent, it means 83 percent of the guns found at crime scenes in Mexico could not be traced to the U.S.
Ask yourself this, if you were home and you never cared for guns, but there was an uninvited guest in your home. You don't know if he is there to rob you or rape you or kill you or all of the above. You announce your presence, but there is no answer. We'll pretend that you have the power to make a gun appear with a snap of your fingers. You are holding the gun now, and the perpetrator has reached your bedroom... you face imminent threat, but you don't know the degree of harm this person is willing to inflict to carry out his purpose... what do you do? I'll leave it that because I have a feeling I know the answer.
One other important thing to remember... there are over 300 million people in this great country of ours. We are told constantly about the dangers of guns. If one percent of the population committed a crime with a gun, that would be 3 million people. Let's break that down to 57,692 gun-related crimes a week, 8,241 a day, 164 in each of the 50 states. When I lived in New York City, pre-Giuliani, one of the City's newspapers had, on the inside of the cover, a timeline of the violent crimes committed in the previous 24-hour period. There were, on average 10 violent crimes committed, with guns AS WELL AS knives, pipes, bats, etc. Should we take those away too? Are we to believe that the same can be said about other cities and states like Kansas, Idaho, Minnesota and even New York and California?!?! The truth is that better than 99 percent of Americans and legal residents of this country are law abiding people who just want to live a good life in the country they love and within the property that they work hard to procure. Let us be proud that we have the right to protect our property and let us fight to preserve it, lest we fall to those who would have us believe that we are bad simply because we own guns. Believe me, the government will not give up its right to arms? Are we even allowed under the Constitution to grant a power to the government, that we ourselves cannot enjoy?
Americans have become lazy and complacent - Now I'm not trying to do a Bill Mahr here... I'm just saying that we have learned to just let the government tell us what we need. I love this country and because I do, I love Americans. I don't mean that we have become lazy as in we don't want to work and aspire to be great! I believe in Americans and what we hope and dream for. What I mean is, at some point we have stopped fighting the urge to question everything we are being told we need. I think it begins with the indoctrination of our youth. What are we teaching the kids these days? Most of the young people I have talked to about this subject have no idea what I am talking about. They have not been taught about the Founding Fathers and what they sacrificed. They have not been taught about history and why we succeeded or failed. Why we had to do what we did. The importance of studying history and living according to the time tested principles that this country was founded upon. I am not naive enough to believe that there were not moments in time where we have carried out horrible acts in order to win a war or secede from an oppressive tyrant, but it is war for a reason. Nevertheless, we should be more accurately imparting to our youth why certain forms of government and economics have succeeded and why they have failed. Socialism has become particularly popular among leftists because they can mislead people into believing that government will take care of them. Where does government get it's money from? US! Those of us who work and pay taxes. You don't have to be too smart to realize that government keeps "giving" in the form of entitlement programs which have become all the rage, we WILL go broke. It's not a question of when, it's a question of how soon will this happen?
We are being told what we need and how quickly we need to get it done. Why? - If you were drowning and I was the only person out to sea with you and I am on the boat, would you want me to throw you a shoe and tell you that you need to put it on now? Don't waste you precious moments telling me what you think you need. I am telling you that you cannot afford to not put on that shoe right now! Pardon the hyperbole and terrible analogy, but I don't know how else to illustrate the terrible things that are being done to us in the name of benevolence and the betterment of soci(alism)ety.
We are taking property from some to give to others. - Perhaps the most dangerous of all is this issue. We are endowed by our Creator with unalienable rights which include Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. Can someone, anyone, please tell me how these are not being encroached upon or abridged with the introduction of the current administration's Socialist ways? Life - our lives are being fundamentally changed. No one is saying that we don't have the right to live, but the way we live our lives will be forever changed. Liberty - if we are taking it from one to give to another, then liberty cannot exist for either. Why? Because we are taking away the liberty of those we are taking from by precluding them from earning to their full potential and thus removing the freedom to procure private property. We are taking liberty away from the one being given to, because entitlements make that person more dependent on government, thus removing the liberty to do what one wishes. They will need to get in line for their handouts just like everyone else. Moreover, as we take from the "rich" to give to the "poor" or "level the playing field" those who were considered the poor will trend upward and there is always someone just a little lower than you are. Who do you think the benevolent government machine will come after then? This brings to mind one of my all time favorite quotes by Abraham Lincoln. Said he...
"Property is the fruit of labor - property is desirable - it is a positive good in the world. That some should be rich, shows that others may become rich, and hence is just encouragement to industry and enterprise. Let not he who is houseless pull down the house of another; but let him labor diligently and build one for himself, thus by example assuring that his own shall be safe from violence..."
This may all seem a bit conspiratorial, but is it not worth discussion and subsequent action to the degree you feel this is real, and applicable in your life? What is alternative? Do we sit around and argue about who is marrying who? Do we sit around extolling the current President and excoriate the former? Do we waste our time arguing about which party is better? About which ideology we subscribe to and why it is the better way to go? The truth is, we argue because as proud patriots who are lucky enough to live in the greatest country in the world, we all want fundamentally, the same thing... I'll let you fill in the blank.
What can we do? Be diligent in your responsibility of protecting your property and your posterity. Question what you are being imbued with... or should I say indoctrinated with. Prepare yourself... read, talk, have discussions, listen, and again... QUESTION. Call or write to your elected officials any chance you get. It does make a difference. Vote, but be sure to ask yourself what voting for this person will do for you. Make it personal. Vote because you think it will be the best thing for you and your family. Not because it is the popular thing to do. Conversely, don't not vote for someone because you don't think he/she is a viable candidate or because you think it will take votes from the only other viable option - Don't be a sheep. Teach children the importance of what they are living. Teach them the history of this nation. The real history. Not the dates they teach them to memorize in school so that they can pass a test. Tell the world that you are proud to be an American... enough of this "I was born in America, but I'm from....". Tell people about the principles that make this country great. Be proud, not sorry. Tell everyone you know about how we have been and continue to be at the forefront of so many relevant aspects of life and why that means that government should leave the American people alone to do what we do best. Work, innovate, create, love, give, contribute... among many other great things.
WAKE UP and SPEAK OUT!!
God Bless Our Great Nation.
September 4th, 2009 - 14:17
Please Junior, I asked you not to quote Abe Lincoln, although that was a good one.
September 5th, 2009 - 01:26
Hello there friend,…you have caught my interest because I agree with some things youve written. In short, yes we should be allowed to arm ourselves, create militia, and generally speaking protect ourselves. And yes we are complacent and being directed by…well leta just say a “few” (relatively speaking) very “opulent” and powerful individuals who move in and about very important arenas in the world (medicine, law, education, and of course government to mention biggies). However, socialism or the idea, the real idea of fraternity of benevolence, is the giving of oneself for the group. We should focus on this because the words socialism and communism scare right wingers away. In sweden and cuba very very similar systems of socialism exist. And sweden, of course is one of the most well developed and democratic nations of the world. And while the majority of cubans ( non defectors) love and enjoy the principles of socialism and democracy, they are being choked by the embargo by the most powerful and influential nations of the world. Historically, the nation has been under extreme military, political, and economic restraints causing a unique development. A man feverishly defending the ideals that he has been reelected over and over again to uphold has long lost his patience nd tolerence for those whi choose profit over life and liberty. Hunted for living what John locke and Patrick Henry each claimed the right of a nation.. To overthrow tyrrany. If you know and have read, even visited Cuba then you would understand these truths. See. In Sweden there is no ecoimperialistic superpower suppressing the truth. Socialism works better than capitalism fir the majority. Excuse me brotherhood. doesnt that sound better than a system that cannot and has never been prepared to offer full employment…or life. Fir what is life without opportunity. But there is more opportunity here than anywhere else you say. Yes, this is true but not because of capitalism but because of socialism. .. Do you like firedepartments, schools, libraries, sanitation, hospitals(though insurance niw rules)… Well then my friend you love socialism and didnt even realize it. What do you think happened in the 1800′ when people came for “opportunity” and didnt find these qualities?…only slave wage, abusive labor or unemployment. And no matter which, always sub standard and dangerous living conditions. They wanted change, the workers, the used and abused masses, those who died mining and building bridges for corporations; (Who by law cannot be tried because they are not an individual) demonstrated and were killed by their own government for seeking better treatment. Tell me, do you deserve better pay? Does a father seeking employment deserve a job, according to our stats..no. Did you know that in Cuba you are by law, in the constitution, as a right entitled to a job? It is also ur responsiblility as a cuban and some dont want to because of a lack of incentive. This is why Cuba is no Sweden…because the UN has not been able to force the US to lift the devastating embargo. In Sweden an Cuba private property
exists….just not of the means of production. Not
over labor. In other words is property more important than life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Its hard to pursue happiness when you cant get a job. Capitalism itself the idea of property being above life has always shown to be the norm. Just that thanks to our constitution, immigration, and good old human determination and will we have struggled and now enjoy what we have in this nation. The plan has never been for everyone to be wealthy. The middle class, and most of the lower half of the upper is colateral oppulence to coin a term. Its happened in the process of creating a haven for greed and economic imperialism. It can happen in a place where brotherhood …Or life liberty and the pursuit of happiness, of equality all prevail over property. Yes welfare sucks and we should not become a nation where hard working people support lowlives, but we should not remain a nation that is known by its corporations and its abuses of the work forces of others. We should not do alot of things that we do here either. The point is that socialism is not the culprit. It is what has allowed our nation to flourish. It isnt even a threat to you or me, it sustains us as healthy and well individuals. Without it, we would be living as miserably as people were from the inception and throughout industrialization. More socialism is only a danger to those who profit from poverty. Those who cash in on drugs ( what you would call corruption I see as part of the system) and the war on drugs, industrial jails, low wage employment (more profit), insurance, law, police,
employment. There can be no rich without the poor…some motherfucker once said. This is at the heart of the matter. You see like in Sweden if we all build as brothers we all succeed, much like matrimony you have more if you share the fruits i your labor. Or would you rather go back to when the husband was the only one allowed property too? Socialism is not actually tied to the ideas you have cited as undesireable. Not one. Unless you feel we need more million or billionaires? Or more corporations (telling us what to do)? This is what we need to wake up to as Americans. We need to show our poor and the world what MLK and Gandhi were killed for….humanity.
September 6th, 2009 - 12:40
finally, Finally, FINALLY, the Rock, has come back, to J&C!
No, j/k, finally Junior we disagree. At least on ‘paper’. (we disagree all the time, but on major issues we have common sense)
My bone of contention with you today Junito is this…. the reasons you stated for voting or how to vote are WRONG!! (in my humble opinion) Do NOT make it personal, do NOT vote on what you think is best for you and your family! Right now everyone is thinking I am nuts……., again. This is what has led to pandering and division. Barack Obama goes to two different ends of Pennsylvania and tells them two different things, never meaning any of them. This is how you get bamboozled. To be fair, all politicians do this. Latinos vote for the guy that promises amnesty and open borders, blacks vote for their own reasons, native Americans have their own set of grievances, and white people, well, they too have their own agendas. This is not bad or good, it just is. None of these groups want what the others want. Generally speaking, this is a fact.
If FDR promises me a chicken in every pot, first I question how will he do that, then I will be like, hmmm is that what I need? I can get my own chickens. So no. If he promises higher wages for everyone, again I will ask how can he do this, but now he’s speaking my language so I may overlook the how. Now a well to do busines owner, lets take an example of a successful landscaper that came from Mexico 25 years ago, did that for 10 years then branched out on his own and now his company employs about 30 workers and grosses about $1 million a year. (EVIL by Pablo’s standards) He doesn’t need chickens, he definitely doesn’t need higher wages! Maybe he needs tax breaks for his business and property. Maybe he has expanded to investing in stocks and wants more wall street regulation. How can any of us be satisfied? If we all vote for what “WE” want, none of us gets anything anybody wants. All we get is what the guy who got elected feels we need!
We need to vote for what is good for the COUNTRY. If the country is doing well, we all have an opportunity to do well. In this case, a chicken in every pot, well, it depends on how and for who. Open borders, come on, thats not feasible at this point in America’s history. Higher wages, thats just selfish. That needs to be earned through performance. And all those things that landscaper wanted…. they help us all, he is not forced to pay higher wages therefore employing more people, gets tax breaks therefore providing a competitive price, and he benefits personally in his finances as well. Maybe one of his employees can take the route he took, and these policies will benefit him as well. Thats why conservatives are portrayed as evil, we want “the rich to get richer” people like Pablo say.
Now, ask yourself, do you want to be equal with your neighbor and never have to worry about food, housing, job? (a lie anyway, Utopia is only in our dreams) You never have to worry, but you will always be where you are now….. no better. Or would you rather have a million dollars? 10 million?
I’ll take the million. I would like a Hummer, a nice house with a pool and wine cellar. Nice clothes for my children. A plasma TV. One caveat, the million or millions isnt for the taking, you have to work for it. Work=dirty word to some. Work to reach the highest position in your company. Work to start your own company. Work to get your album out. Work to come up with the latest greatest invention. (SHAM WOW) lol. Or work your butt off in a small landscape business and grow till you reach your goal.
Thats the way it should be, guess what, thats just how it is here in the good ole U S of A.
September 8th, 2009 - 10:18
Chino mariposa… what I meant by making it personal and voting for who is best for you and your family was more of a statement of impetus. The alternative is not to vote, which does nothing… OR vote for the popular person which is how our current president entered the White House.
To your statement about Obama bamboozling those who voted for him, please explain how voting for the reasons that are for the good of the country would have changed the results. The fact of the matter is that this is what the purpose of this site is, or at least that’s what I thought it was for… to have pithy discussions that would educate or least initiate discussions for the good of those who HAVE been bamboozled… myself included.
President Obama would have promised to come over and make pancakes for breakfast if he thought it would put his political expediency on the fast-track. He was also brilliant in making everyone believe that everything he promised to do, WAS FOR THE GOOD OF THE COUNTRY. Even now, he says that Obama Care is what the COUNTRY NEEDS. The problem, for him, is that now America is waking up and getting wise to his game. PEOPLE are beginning to ask questions like “Is this good for me?, Am I going to lose my private insurance?, Will I have to wait on lists to have procedures done?” So, notice that the questions being asked are about how health care reform would affect the individual. Do you care what reform would do for your neighbor?
Now, Pablo, are you seriously asking us to aspire to be more like Cuba? Equality my friend, is in the eye of the beholder. If you are lazy and don’t like to work, equality means, take from the rich and give me some. If you are ambitious and like to work and get ahead, equality means “I want to live in a country where I can be FREE to move up (like George and Weezie) at the rate of the effort your exert.”
I think Chino came up with an excellent analogy of the landscaper. Only instead of explaining in terms of Capitalism and how everyone wins, he should have explained in terms of Socialism and how everyone loses. Can we at least agree that the current administration is Socialist at heart? Now, let’s say we go down this “yet to be successful” path… What happens to the landscaper? Even only withstanding what has been implemented or proposed thus far, by Obama, Pelosi, Reid and the minions? Higher taxes on the “rich”? Less money for the landscaper, because he is obviously loaded if he makes $250k right? This means less money to hire which equals higher unemployment numbers. We have seen this already. Next, stimulus packages, again taking from the “rich” to give to the poor… see higher taxes. Health Care for all… do you think government is going to pay for all of this? Who pays? The RICH!! Poor landscaper, or should I say, rich landscaper or should I say used to be rich, but now he is not rich, because the “playing field” has been leveled, landscaper? This is all so confusing! Who should be take from now? How can we level the playing field some more and try to satiate the appetite of the beneficiaries of entitlements? Hmmm, should we start to take from those making over $150k, they’re pretty well off. The have plasma TVs and three cars but they only really need one car right? I love me some Socialism!!!
September 8th, 2009 - 15:43
In Sweden people do have plasmas, hummers, big homes and wine cellars…There is enough wealth for everyone to lice very well; There just is not enough for everyone to be stinking rich.( Like wipe your ass with silk rich) However, if being a millionaire is more important than, as you say, what is best for the whole “country”, then we have a fundamental moral discord, and this cannot be settled by reason. That person with the landscaping company is not evil if he recognizes that without his workers he wouldnt be shit. As I have pointed out, property and even living very well with all of the modernities is not impossible under socialism. Sadly, its the multi million and
billionaires that do not realize that the people who truely matter, are the workers. Instead, they seek to abuse those abroad and keep most of our own citizens teetering between struggle and affluence. Tell me do you think your boss really deserves more pay than you? Does a ball player deserve millions? Besides that right to own a business and employ others, nothing in any moral or reasonable
framework entitles owners to more money than employees (and thus controlling them). If the available money in our nation were to be balanced out, most of our citizens would be earning much more than they do now. And those who own and do not work would be forced to join the majority and work as well instead of living iff of the toils of others. Incentive would remain because even in cuba a doctor is recognized over a landacaper, but endless wealth is not the motivator, though one does live better when more well prepared. Take into account a decrease in the
price of goods to the level of their actual cost (sneakers for ex are made at about a cost of 3$) and we approach economic success for all.
Especially if we show no tolerance for laziness(like
Fidel). Check out Sweden, I understand a friend
has already put you on.
September 9th, 2009 - 06:49
PABLO sounds like he’s reading Marx’s words straight out of the communist manifesto. Have you read it, all your words and ideas are in it. Remember the hammer and sickle (how do u spell that), representative of the ‘worker and farmer’? And only a real fool and idiot would compare a country as small and undiverse as Sweden to the vast and diverse USA. Maybe u can draw a comparison with Sweden and Vermont!
Now Junior…. junior, junior, junior. I’m glad u asked……
September 9th, 2009 - 07:13
FIRST OF ALL!!!! (he proclaims) You need to look up pithy again.
Now how would voting for what is right for America changed the outcome of this election…. well thats the rub, first you have to REALIZE what is right and good and prosperous over what is wrong, bad and has never worked.., on the contrary, just led to the worst dictatorships in human history. Even a monarchy is less abusive than a leftist dictatorship. I know, the inquisition and all that, but monarchies have worked, anyway, i digress.
Once you realize that communist, leftist ideas are wrong and bad for any peoples, you can now see who is proposing them. As I told you before the election, Obama is a communist. The ONE amazingly great quality that he has (as a politician) is that he actually kept all his promises! HE SAIS HE WOULD DO ALL THESE THINGS!!! He claimed it, promised it, and delivered. All you and others could hear was ‘hope and change’ and how ‘intelligent’ and ‘charming’ he is. While I and others like Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity were pointing out, he was a commie. Remember Rev Wright? Remember William Ayers? He is a commie and surrounds himself with commies… i.e. Van Jones.
He also promised as such. He said he would ”fundamentally change America” Now that is a little vague, but putting it in context with all he was saying, about healthcare reform, the enviornment, even min wage.
Not to vote….? Yes, that is better. It is my belief that you should take a little test before voting, not deny anyone to vote, but just a test to see if they understand the issues. If they get it wrong, then they would be given the right answers right then and there. Like, ”Is Obama for or against late term abortions, and has he stated that botched abortions where a child was born alive while trying to be aborted, then killed after it was born, IS OK?” Your answer would be.. ”Gee, I hope not” You get a loud buzzer.. and the answer would pop up, ”He has stated that he cannot be against that because that would undermine the abortion argument.”
September 9th, 2009 - 07:24
That actually happened in Chicago. The live baby was wrapped in sheets and wounded and bloodied thrown into a linen closet to die. A nurse found the baby and held her till she died. Those were his comments to that. Do you think something like that would have changed the outcome of the election? So dumb, uninformed people should not vote. That is what the Democrats prey on! They encourage young people who have no idea on the issues and poor people who also dont know whats going on to vote because they give them what they want to hear and increase their voter turn out. This os the ONLY reason that liberals are actually competitive every election, young and stupid people. I am not saying that only stupid people voted for Obama, they just pander to, and get a lot of them. There are plenty of dumb hicks that vote for Republicans too, but they are the minority of Republican voters.
”VOTE OR DIE” was P Diddy’s slogan. Nuff said.
September 9th, 2009 - 07:28
AND the baby thing was not a mistake or accident. The baby was not disposed of in the usual way.. they knew it was alive and didnt know what to do with it so they LITERALLY, left it there to die. Even it was a mistake or accident, Obama would not denounce or discourage these actions.
September 9th, 2009 - 07:49
Pablo… two comments… One, Chino is right. What a completely useless comparison… Sweden and the United States? Are you kidding? Two, as far as the landscaper not being shit without the workers… What would the workers be without him? You may say that they could go work somewhere else and you may be right, for the time being. However, if they are working for a landscaper, they are people with limited skills should it come time to look for career alternatives. What then? What if they have cursed out all the landscapers because they refused to see the value that the worker brings to the table? What comes first? The chicken or the egg? There must be a diligent, motivated person, willing to pony up the loot to start the business where these workers can earn a living. And what of the people who can wipe their asses with money… SO? What’s your problem with those folks? Even an ignoramus like P Diddy provides income to his entourage, who would rather bury their heads you know where instead of working for a living and for some dignity… or perhaps… heavens NO!… create something, dreaming up and idea and using some of the “cheddah” for some good or to start a business so some more of “those less fortunate” can have a job.
Tell me, has a rich person kept you from achieving what you have today? You are a fairly eloquent writer. I can only assume that you have had some education and that you are not sitting around benefiting from entitlement programs and gubment cheese.
September 9th, 2009 - 21:24
You guys. You hate the concept of socialism so much and dont even understand it. No, this administration is not socialist at heart it is only trying to quiet the masses. Now really, what you really need to do is learn about socialism to understand the comparison I’ve made. Honestly, Im not even a socialist. I just understand that some of its ideas are not only beneficial but necessary in the world. That why only fools would ignore the fact (which I stated) that our nation as we know it was built with socialist ideas. Most of us would never be in the “middle” class without it! Let’s at least agree on that Junior. Lastly, I would never compare our society with Sweden’s, however, it can and has been used as model of success for socialism by many much more well educated people than us. Look, Y
the two of you need to get off the tube and radio, stop reading what your favorite analysts say and go take some poly sci poly hist courses with some real intellectuals then you might begin to bridge a few synapses, and create some neural connections.
September 9th, 2009 - 21:56
Oh and one last thing, Do you seriously believe that an owner (of a company is more important than those who labor? It seems that you guys really are just concerned with “movin’ on up” and that is why you pointedly avoid the serious moral implications here. I know it can be hard to think outside the box, but really, I’m sure that you can imagine employment without “owners”, and an equitable distribution of wealth…Success and wealth without capitalism. ….No No, not totally equal, that would be ridiculous. But you know, decent wages for the service/ profession. And personally, as a citizen, I respect the landscaper (he works) more than the owner and
they should be getting paid a lot more. It all boils down to morality, and when you believe in capitalism so wholeheartedly it becomes easy to disregard the activities of the real evil ones (multi-million dollar co.) and here is where we can see
the real nature of the “trickle down” effect….Just don’t become
too saturated in their piss fellas.
September 10th, 2009 - 12:37
Wow! I must thank Chino for convincing me to put together this site. There is much to be learned…
Pablo says
It meaning Socialism… HUH? There is no middle class in Socialism! In a system where there are socio-economic classes, like capitalism, when Socialism is implemented, classes are wiped out, because you take from the rich, until they flee or the cost of doing business becomes profit-prohibitive and they join the poor, OR, they pay their high-earning accountants to shelter their money using loopholes in the 67 thousand page tax code… then gov just takes from the middle class and the same happens, until there is only, but one class, THE POOR and then the system fails. I know even YOU don’t want that!
Now, to your point about me believing that the owner is more important than the worker. One, I never said that and I don’t believe that. What I am saying is that both are crucial to the equation and government tax hikes will eliminate the owner. Whether you choose to acknowledge it or not, theirs is a symbiotic relationship. You sound just like a friend of mine who works for me every now and then, in my business. He says “we use your equipment and you and I do the physical labor which means that you should get a third of the money for your use of your equipment, and then you should get a third and I should get a third.” Then I remind him, where are you when the company van needs fuel or maintenance and repairs? Where are you when new equipment needs to be purchased? How about equipment costs?… and the list goes on. Workers are quick to point out that they are being taken advantage of and I have no doubt that it takes place all over the country and the world, but they always forget the cost of doing business, operations costs, overhead!!
If it is the responsibility of the business owners and the affluent of this country to provide for the poor before they can provide for themselves, above and beyond what the government deems “essential”, what is the responsibility of the poor? Hmm? To spend the money? What else? I’m going to digress a little here, but do you know that the ACLU is fighting to block a bill that would prevent government from mandating drug testing from people benefiting from entitlements? So we can’t even demand that in return for giving them our tax money?
Hey Pablo, how much do you make? You can tell me… we’re all equal here right? I mean, that is what you want isn’t it? I mean if we are going to be equal we need to know how much each of us earns, right? So, tell me, and that way, if you make more than me, we can split the difference and things can be fair. Or maybe I can just come live with you, and you can pay for my health care costs. I know my dad recently lost his job because his employer can’t afford to do business anymore. Can I just send him to your place? You don’t mind do you? Or perhaps he should keep looking and find another job so that you and I and the rest of America are not encumbered with his financial obligations?
September 10th, 2009 - 15:54
Dude, its really hard to converse with you because there is just way too much prior knowledge that you either lack or just do not want to axcept. First off, I hope you know that we are in a MIXED economy! I’m sorry to break it to you but as all those who have actually taken economics courses well know this nation has gradually imtegrated many many socialist reforms. It’s ok to learn something c’mon you can write it: “Really, I didn’t know that!” Everthing you think is a public service is a fundamental aspect of socialist theory. It was literally taken right from Marx and the others, because as you probably don’t know the immigrant workers who built this nation were up on arms trying to establish socialism here in the early
amd mid 1800′s. Wait…didn’t I already mention Education, PD, FD, libraries, all of it. Socialism has nothing to do with poverty…go to college please! Take advantage of the best our nation has to offer….Learn your history and truely understand the economic systems you critique. You see costs and overhead wouldn’t be an issue with a bit more socialism…prices would be closer to actual production costs. Look its way too much fore to explain in the few minutes that I, in very very rash and crude for try to educate you with from my little phone. You have first to want to understand capitalism and socialism and our
nation beyond the very superficial and broad notions ypu have of each system. For God’s sake you didn’t even know that we have long applied socialist principles here. You have much to learn my padawan apprentice, ….much to learn.
September 10th, 2009 - 16:25
Oh and it would be more lucrative to equitably distribute Bill Gates’ holdings… It alone would rescue the majority of Americans…you know the ones that theykeep printing more money, and raising the poverty line for…to hide the fact that most Americans are far from successful and are so to maintain low wage employment. Has the minimum wage actually increased? I will recomend one book …please read it …A People’s History of the United States By-Howard Zinn. I recomend it as a friend from afar who hopes that you will delve into the abyss of history to swim and search forever to strive to understand history and thus the present. Get away from the media endorsed commentators and judge, as I have, for yourself.
September 12th, 2009 - 16:55
axcept is really spelled accept. truely is really spelled truly. recomend is really spelled recommend. ‘up on arms” is actually ‘up in arms’.
forget college, you need an english writing course! I let all the typos go because i get them all the time too trying to type on my touchscreen phone.
How bout this Pablo, you are the misinformed, misguided, and malparido that has it all wrong. No, you idiot, the immigrant workers did NOT establish all the ‘socialist’ public service entities like schools, PD and FD. In fact, the fire departments in most of the country are still all VOLUNTEER, like where I live in Virginia.
Shut up, I tire of your stupidity Pablo. You make grandiose claims, and insult our intelligence because we didn’t go to college. AS IF….. as if you have a PHD in poly-sci, or poly-hist, or all those economics course you claim I need. Actually dick, I do understand what you’re saying, yes duh, we are in a mixed economy, yes duh we have socialist programs in place, most notably our FAILED school system.
THAT IS THE EFFIN PROBLEM A-HOLE!!! Our founding fathers created a near perfect system that led a fledgling nation to become the most Powerful in the history of the planet in under 150 years. How long has England had, Italy, CHINA!!! Well England may have been stronger, but they too have diminished, because of idiots like you preaching what you do. And since its inception, people in the USA have tried to move us to the left, and somewhat successfully, that is why we are in so much trouble right now. YES, including the previous administration.
That is what conservatives like myself want. Abide by the constitution, and we shall prosper. The more we prosper, the more everybody prospers. This country has given more aid and help to more countries than any other in history.
Maybe you should try talking TO people, instead of talking down to them. I do it now, because you have pissed me off and I am actually going easy on you. Call me on the phone, or better yet, lets do it in person. You will learn about actions and consequences. Tell me to my face that I am an idiot and watch what happens.
September 12th, 2009 - 18:04
I know I can be careless, but you’re impossible. All you do is focus on minor details to argue with me. You are the threat, because you can be coerced to try to hurt someone like me. I hope you believe assassination is unmanly so I can at least defend myself…God Bless You in either case.
September 12th, 2009 - 18:06
Oh and when did I insult you?
September 12th, 2009 - 19:02
OK I just poured my heart and ideas for our country and humanity here and they were erased. On this blog and the other. On three separate occasions.
September 14th, 2009 - 08:44
Pablo, I cannot apologize for my partner in crime, but I believe we have reached an impasse. I think both sides of this argument are stuck and cannot be changed over. The best we can do is try to offer the information that has been imparted to us and let others formulate their own opinions. My intention was not to insult you and as for the comments that you felt were erased, I would absolutely, not ever do that (as evidenced by my co-host’s choice euphemisms). Your comments were simply tagged as comments that needed to be approved by us (not sure why). I did and they are now available here.
Yes, I do know about Socialism (and that is where the insult came from you) and I don’t need college to tell me that I do. I HAVE read tons of literature regarding the subject and I HAVE spoken to many people about it.
It is in fact, the socialist part of our system that has failed us as Chino indicated. Socialism, or redistribution of wealth, allows government to dictate the tems of the entity it controls under the system. Just ask the banks, the US auto-makers, and like Chino said, the public education system. I am watching my daughter’s kindergarten class like a hawk so as to do my part to prevent her from starting to drink the kool-aid already. Socialism is just another in for the government to indoctrinate our people…beginning with the schools. To set the record straight, it was the founding fathers who started the public school system, but like with everything else, their motives were pure. They wanted to make our literacy rate, tops in the world. Just look at the writings of some of the people from that generation, most of which never completed a secondary education level. Then talk to some of the college grads in their early twenties and you tell me if you think I need a college education to learn about Socialism.
You say “everything you think is a public service” like I think it’s a great thing. Anything “public” sucks. You tell me any public or government run entity where it’s private counter part does not far exceed its service and performance… ONE!
I always give credit where credit is due. You are right in that Socialism itself, does not beget poverty. It does, however, thwart innovation, entrepreneurship, motivation, determination, etc. What incentive do I have to produce, if I know that I HAVE to give my property to others who did nothing to deserve it? We, as a people, understand that there are others who truly need help and that is why we are the most giving country in the world. But to take from the pioneers and innovators of this country, and to give it those who won’t share the burden of moving this country forward and continue to make it the economic power of the world is simply wrong. The fact is, that charitable giving is down this year, because people are saying “well, the government is already taking my money anyway.” Why not leave the money in our pockets so we are FREE, F-R-E-E, FREE to GIVE the money, and time, and effort, to those who really need it? Let’s not give indiscriminately to the lazy, irresponsible people who just wanna sit around drinkin 40s and chillin.
Why are people who favor Socialism always to afraid to talk about implementing it on a smaller scale? If you lived in an apartment building, would you want your landlord to raise your rent in order that he may give those “less fortunate” an opportunity to pay zero rent? To make matters worse, the beneficiary of this entitlement or “social” program lives next door and every morning when you are leaving for work and it’s still dark outside at 5 AM, you see your “fellow American” hangin with his buddies because he hasn’t gone to sleep yet. The good beer is flowing, he’s got some bling and a nice TV… what the…?!?!?! You see, they never want to talk it in those terms, because they are not the ones who are giving, WE ARE MAN!!! WAKE UP!! If you take $20 from my wallet and give it to a homeless person in need, are you giving or are you stealing? So Obama steals from us, gives it to “those Americans who need it” and he comes off looking like the benevolent leader of the world?!?! By the way, the $20 issue was not a rhetorical question! I expect an answer!! Are you giving or are you stealing?!?!
As far as Bill Gates, buddy, I don’t know if I even need to go here with you… but… I don’t admire Gates, I don’t aspire to be like him. I aspire to be as wealthy, but does that make me evil? Now, how many people have CAREERS because of his vision, because of his ability to market his product, his tenacity, his will and determination? You wanna talk about research, go and find out how much the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation has given. Are you saying that this evil man is not a philanthropist? Go and research and report to us what country has given more time and money than this great country of ours.
I’m sure you are not here to insult us and neither are we. Let’s work together to overcome our political discord, not add fuel to the fire. Enough with the insulting platitude which is just fodder for the government to further advance their agenda.
Pablo, I know the concepts of Socialism and Capitalism are to much to elaborate on here, but I think I can handle respectful dialogue about the matter. Instead of telling me what I am doing wrong, please enlighten us with relevant, positive ideas about how you think Socialism will help our current crisis. Lord knows, our President has certainly not given us a straight answer.
God Bless you too.
P.S. – I don’t think President O should be able to use “May God Bless you and May God Bless the United States of America.” For he is using God’s name in vain.
September 14th, 2009 - 12:37
Very eloquent my brother. I’m glad you are here to keep the peace. We Rock, SHAKE-N-BAKE!!! Which one are you, shake or bake?
I just got fed up and as usual, I will not apologize. I just don’t suffer fools very easily. I mean if you tried, Pablo, to address our points, maybe even answer a question, ever! Instead of always stating condescendingly how dumb, and brainwashed we are, we might have had a polite discourse.
The problem with you Pablito is that you hope and dream for a perfect world (perfect in YOUR sense of the word) and granted, you probably live that way, that is good, honorable and giving. I dont know. But me, I live in the real world. So do you, you just dont know it.
I argued with Junior once about my finances, and he was like, uh, you’re still gonna have to pay rent… and because he only sees things as they SHOULD BE, that is I have to work, pay rent, pay for car insurance, whatever.. all things that he could not imagine not doing, I gave him example after example of how I could get away without doing those things, and people we both know who live this way.
That is the real world. I always did, and always will work for my needs. I dont want to support others, if you want to, go ahead, dont force me into YOUR MORALITY.
September 14th, 2009 - 12:48
And its not carelessness that you misspell words and screw up cliches. You spelled ‘truly’ wrong in another posting, then have the nerve to scream ‘go to college please.’
Like Manny said, ”Joo, arr an ahhshole.” Hahahaha, I crack myself up!
Anyway, more real life, if i was to go up to one of the kids i went to high school with in Brooklyn and insulted their intelligence the way you do ours, guess how many teeth I would still have!
Assasination may be unmanly, I would say cowardly, but it is a reality. ”Aside from that Mrs. Lincoln, what did you think of the play?” Unfortunately there are crazies on all sides and our President is always at risk. But I have to ask…. why the F@%& did you bring that up!?!?!
September 14th, 2009 - 12:54
One other thing, keep YOUR GOD to yourself. I don’t want any part of him or her.
September 14th, 2009 - 13:30
Chino, your desire to deny’s God’s existence or his blessings doesn’t negate Pablo’s desire for you to be blessed or God’s bestowal of those upon you. You benefit from His blessings every day whether you choose to acknowledge it or not. Like the wife says to her neglectful, well-dressed husband “You think those pants ironed themselves?!?!”. This, however, is a topic for a different thread. Stay tuned…
I have faith in our Creator and I believe that Pablo’s comment was sincere, unlike Mr O’s. Those of us who wish God’s blessings on you are simply “ironing your pants” Chino Almighty!!
September 14th, 2009 - 13:45
I, on the other hand, believe he is full of shit. He just says that to make himself seem holier than thou. You really think he cares about my well being? Geez, i wanna punch him, imagine what he would wish upon me!
Him and all his elitist ilk are the same way, look righteous (is that spelled correctly?) and then do whatever you want. Thats how he can insult, then say, god bless you, and not look like an a-hole.
He’s still a brown stained balloon knot in my book. Wait, where’d I put that book…..?
September 14th, 2009 - 14:04
Probably no more than when you tell someone to “have a great day” or “take care”, unless you call them at the end of the day to confirm. That however, does not make it precede or follow a pompous, disdainful or condescending remark. When I tell someone to have a good day, I mean that I wish them a good day, in relation to the degree to which I know and care about the person. Same goes for God’s blessings which is actually tantamount to my example because there is no further exertion of effort needed, but the benefit is great. The person is going to have a good day whether you intervene or not and God will bless in much the same way. So, I would probably mean it a lot more if I said it to my mom then if I said to Pablo, but a blessing is still an option.
To wish someone a good day or a blessing and mean the opposite is hypocrisy and if that was Pablo’s intention then the knot comment would be applicable.
It’s a good thing not many people would waste their time on a the 26th comment in a thread… uggh!!
September 14th, 2009 - 15:35
Thank you Junior for your clarity, honesty, and courtesy on the matters at hand, for I as well did not feel that my points were always addressed either. Though I do believe that all of us have addressed at least some of the points (I know I have not totally ignored yours or Chino’s). Secondly, I apologize for my part in the mudslinging especially to you Chino. I did it in reaction to, being dismissed, labeled, belittled and called an outright idiot several times. If we look back at the posts I think they speak for themselves as far as who called who what. One just has to be prepared to reap what you sow. Although, I for one would be totally willing to cut the rude remarks, and to leave the things written to me in the past.
Now Chino…I know it’s “up in arms”…’o’ is just next to ‘i’….and I guarantee you that I can spell just fine (most of the time). Truly, I do have a few incorrect grammatical habits, but then again most fully bilingual people do. I guess it must have been my shitty elementary school (good thing I was sent to a beacon program, it helped). Overall, I do not think you guys are idiots, and I do believe we can build. However, we must do it one baby step at a time. There is way too much to discuss.
Public services and socialism for starters. It was not clear that you understood as much as you do in previous posts. Have you read books from the socialist perspective as well? The reason I ask is because as I previously stated, Socialism requires that everyone work and contribute to society. I am highly critical of welfare and the implementation of public services in our nation for that reason. I think we can agree that it is the child’s responsibility to learn and the parents’ responsibility to nurture that child well enough for them to be able to assimilate in school. Doesn’t the school system work to a large extent for those that make it work for them? I think it’s overkill to say that all public services suck, 100% of the time. We both well know that many American children have been very well educated in public schools. I will not yet discuss the horrible job that the “Departments of Education” do around the country, and the time and effort that teachers contribute to clean up the “mess” associated with education. How can a mother regulate and nurture her child if she has to work absurd hours because she has no other way of making ends meet? Think about the countless ways that we shortchange education for entertainment as a culture here. Profit takes precedence over the family unit, and everything else in a capitalist dominated society. The fact that we are a nation of immigrants has a lot to do with the problem for many reasons. Mainly, it complicates the process, and sublimely the elite have a large stake in the failure of the masses (This is why in public education teachers are forced to do exactly the opposite of what works in elite schools. To further clarify the record, “public” education was highly localized, and only available to the wealthy until the 1840′s (when widespread disaffection began rattling the cages). Rockefeller, Vanderbilt, and JP Morgan practiced good philanthropy like some today..but how did they treat their workers? How were conditions in the cities and factories? At what costs were their empires built? Of course they gave back to society…but it did not curb their greed. I don’t think wanting to be rich is evil, but can you with a clear conscience defend men like the aforementioned? Sorry for being a moral busybody, but I believe that if it bothers my conscience, then it is wrong. There are too many people with bad intentions taking advantage of the capitalist system and by extension of people. Socialism is used to control us, I agree, but it doesn’t have to be that way. There is no evidence that it thwarts any of the things you mentioned. In fact, it plants seeds of goodwill instead of greed which undoubtedly occurs with capitalism. The motivation in socialism is the desire to contribute to the betterment of society for the benefit of all, so that we can all work, and all enjoy the fruits of that labor.
September 14th, 2009 - 16:11
Oh and Chino, just so you know… I found your insults and threats funny not menacing. It did not cross my mind once to want to hit you, and much less hate you. I do wish you the best and bless you nonetheless. Like I said, I was drawn into it all. I was wrong because it is not my style…but it seems to be yours.
Remember one thing about me: My life is about helping and protecting others.
I was rude because you were rude, and that was wrong (thx junior).
Your right Chino, I would never have spoken to you that way in person. Not out of fear, but out of humanity and respect. I have had people with road rage apologize to me (and I’ve had to knock a few out in self defense) after they realize I don’t mean them any harm.
So there you are…
But if your still angry and want to take it out on me I’ll take you up on a friendly sparring match so you can have a chance to vent.
September 14th, 2009 - 16:16
Oh and Junior, I can understand why people are turned off by the word God. Like anything else that empowers the masses it has been manipulated, twisted, and misused to control us and keep us down.
September 15th, 2009 - 18:26
You know, when I first read your comments I was pleasantly surprised. I was even going to say, wow, we really agree on almost everything, it is just the solution we disagree with.
But…………… . . . . . . . . . …
when I reread it today, I noticed something… You apologize, but each time with an excuse. You slung mud ‘in reaction’ to my dismissing, labeling, belittling and calling you an idiot. You say you were rude ONLY because I was rude to you first.
Godamn you are fukking stupid. I feel comfortable insulting you because there is no reasoning with you. You are like a child. You live for giving and helping people!?!? Guess what, I dont need or want shit from you or anybody. You may laugh, or think that this is a joke… I am dead fucking serious asshole.
To anyone that may read this, I know this seems immature and childish, but there is evil in the world and it comes from assholes like Pablo that actually reach positions of power. This is where people like Stalin, Hitler, Castro, Chavez and many more come from. We need to rid the world of these vermin and not just dismiss them as harmless or allow them to get their paws on impressionable young minds. You, Pablo, are no better than Charles Manson, David Koresh or Jim Jones.
I will fight you with every breath, there is no sparring with us.
September 15th, 2009 - 18:40
My last attempt at trying to get through your rotten skull. You want to take the power from and topple the rich elite class that run the world, understandable how you can be jealous of such people. Since you can never get there you want to bring them down instead of aspiring to better yourself, in ALL aspects, not just monetarily. But you want to turn around and GIVE all this power to politicians, to moral relativists like yourself!?!? There is no more naive and stupid a notion.
I have no need to engage you any further. My mission in life is two-fold, take care of myself and family and secondly, to take down punks like you. Most of the time the former takes up most of my time and efforts, but sometimes, just sometimes, there comes along someone in the latter dept. Thats when I really enjoy myself.
So you never answered, you glad 9-11 happened? And why in the hell did you bring up assassination? And where in the hell do you stand? You say you are not a socialist, you dont like Obama, you are obviously not a libertarian, conservative or anarchist. What in God’s name do you represent if not chaos?
These three questions that have been asked to you directly before, I once again put forth to you.
Chino §:-(
September 15th, 2009 - 20:31
O.k. I’ll start with the questions before you have an aneurysm. I think that anyone that glorifies suffering, even the suffering of people who live and think differently, is evil at heart. Even if they take care of a few people. No way, I don’t like any form of war, fighting or killing. In fact, when 9-11 occurred I was greatly saddened. Just as I have been every single time I read about any moment in history where innocent people were killed, and certain people profit. Assassination was just a guess at what you would want to do…and you have just confirmed it. Third, I stand outside of any and all political groups or labels that exist….I don’t trust any of them. I represent God, all his creation, and nothing else (You called it). I do try my very best to treat others the way I want to be treated. And yes, to help others as much as is in my limits. And believe it or not, that treatment is returned to me from every angle. Except from those who hate.
No one gets anywhere alone.
Much like you, I didn’t need college to read books, to listen and to learn from the available sources around me….and I don’t exclude any good sources. Everything reliable and direct is a source for me. In my early twenties, I argued constantly against Socialism, for Catholicism…but the more I plunged into the chasm of history and the free press, the clearer the truth became. I don’t claim to know the whole truth, but I do claim to pursue it as a political aim…and at the root of the truth is God. Corruption is everywhere as you well know.
Do you really believe the things that you accuse me of? How have I, in any of my writings, shown to be any of the preposterous things that you accuse me of? History speaks for itself. Chino, you are Junior’s friend I know that you have the ability to reason…now will you is the question?
I am curious to know…Junior what do you think of this? And…oh…where are the issues…there….going….going…
September 15th, 2009 - 20:32
Last thing, my apology is unexcused…my actions merely explained.
September 15th, 2009 - 20:48
Sorry…one more thing…I don’t want to be wealthy or elite, and they will topple themselves. Upon studying the way money affects people at those levels,I actually pity them. Though I am jealous only of those who can live near perfect waves.
September 16th, 2009 - 02:16
Thank you.
For answering.
That is all.
September 16th, 2009 - 09:15
This is the problem that I have with you Chino. You have, on several occasions, called me absolutist, You say that there is no reasoning with Pablo and yet, you always take the stance that you are right and everyone else is wrong. You are simply saying what I bet President Obama wishes he could say to the American people when dissenting on his policy. When you use that type of language to “get things through people’s rotting skulls” you lower yourself to the ranks of Nancy Pelosi with her Nazi remarks. It is Pablo’s constitutional right to express himself just the same as it is yours. However, adding expletives to your arguments does not make them any more correct. I know that you and I have had our share of heated debate and you add these words to inject passion to the message your are trying to convey, but this only makes a mockery of what we are trying to do.
I may disagree with Pablo on many of his viewpoints, but I do agree that we need to get rid of the dirty talk and stick to the issues.
Now, Pablo, you asked my view on this… It just so happens that I had a discussion about this with my mom and my wife yesterday. It makes me angry when I see constantly following “suffering of the innocent, while others profit.” Have you ever seen the movie “Bruce Almighty”? Watch it. While on the surface it seems like another Jim Carrey comedy, it brings to light a very important message. God knows and Bruce finds out, that in life, there must be (for the greater good, as Obama says) some who suffer and others who profit. If you have seen the movie, do you remember when Bruce goes through his email at light-speed (after having been conferred with the powers of God) and simply says “yes” to every person’s prayers? What happened? Weather patterns changed, thousands of people won the lottery at the same time and so there was a bunch of angry people, the list goes on. Is this what you want? There can be no prosperity when equality or “liberty” is not properly understood. Equality can bring the most good to the most amount of people when equality means equal right to pursue ones own happiness… even if it means that others must suffer.
One last thing, if you truly believe in God, then you know that God giveth and taketh in ways that we as humans do not always understand. Chino would argue that I am an idiot for believing this, but I do believe it. I had a brother who died at the age of 2. Am I to believe that God is evil because surely if he was a benevolent God, he would not remove a 2 year old from this earth at such an early age. As I grew in faith, I began to understand that although I did not understand why an innocent young boy had to die, there must have been a greater purpose which this action filled in the greater scheme of things. Well, my friend, my mother, my father and I had to suffer very much so that others or maybe even one of us could avoid a calamity or Heaven forbid, prosper!
Nothing is free buddy! Not even from God! And certainly not from the government! What you view as goodness or benevolence through government intervention, is evil and increasing of dependence of the people, on big government!
September 16th, 2009 - 12:49
I am very sorry for your loss and heartache.
How can people exercise their right to prosper if:
… there is no employment for them?
…their labor is not respected enough to merit just wages?
…they are prevented from moving up due to discrimination?
…their nation is used as a neo-colony?
…their neighborhoods are infested with addictive drugs, violence?
I could go on…There is a lot of proof that these circumstances are created.
God gave man free will…Greed and a lust for power has dominion over the souls of those who work at the highest levels to perpetuate those circumstances.
Prosperity does not have to come with the cost of suffering…that is only what is, as Chino put it, “reality”. Through the ages, this reality has changed form….only the methods have changed.
September 16th, 2009 - 14:10
Correction, “hasn’t changed form…”
September 16th, 2009 - 18:17
et tu Brutus?
Dude, here I thought we were making progress…. we got this dolt Pablo eating out of our hands, hating me and respecting you (good cop, bad cop routine) and you go and eat out of his hand and turn no ME. Oh man, this truly hurts, was that an 8 inch chef knife u stuck in my back or a michael myers unreal 18 inch butcher knife?
Geez, ok, I’ll play the dejected lowly naughty little boy that has just been sent to his room… but know this, the only reason I took this route, well 2 reasons, with P. Diddy Ablo was
1. just to make it interesting, controversial and fun for the sake of interest in the blogsite, but mostly…
2. You know that I have no patience and or tolerance for useless people in my life. If a person has no positive influence in my life, I have no need for them.
Do you REALLY think Pablito would respect you and give you the props that he does solely on the merits of your common sense arguments? They are the same as mine! That is the only way he would listen to a word you’re
September 16th, 2009 - 18:35
saying, because he perceives you as an ally.
How long after I am out of the conversation do you think it will be before he starts turning on you again? How long before he starts saying how you cant understand the dynamics of socialism vs. capitalism? How long before he starts condescendingly imploring you to ‘please read’ and study history which you cannot understand but he does? How long?
He listens to you because of me! You sound like the reasonable one.
Never take sides against the family ever again Fredo.
And I did make a mistake…. I saw Pablo as a threat to impressionable minds, but I was wrong. After he finally told us where he stood in the grand scheme of things I finally understood him. His head is so inflated that he thinks he is the only one with solutions to the world’s problems just looking for followers to lead into his new world order. He is nothing more than a whack job. Similar in the vain of a michael moore, but more like a Jim Jones, David Koresh or yes, Charlie Manson. Remember Manson’s motivation was to start a war between the blacks and whites so that he could come out and scream FOLLOW ME! Am I saying he is capable of violence? I dunno, maybe. I never put that past anybody if they are desperate enough.
Big picture buddy, big picture. The whole point is to keep him talking so that he would expose himself as a true whack job that he is. I have, or thought I had you to balance out my tirades and OUR message would still get across.
Shake n Bake?
September 16th, 2009 - 20:54
‘dito todavia esta resentido el Chinito. Please forgive me for giving you the wrong impression of me, and again I never hated you (but can’t say the same of others). I really am not condescending at all…I really did just get into all of the political “slaps on the wrist” that WE GAVE TO EACH OTHER! Do you know what you sound like? I blame these impersonal computers… but whatever.
And nooooooo wrong again I would not be so ‘vain’ to believe that I have all the solutions. I could stand here and give you a laundry list of people and books that have contributed to my frame of mind (and I still seek more). I am here writing because I believe you are both important…everyone is in my framework. Do I think I have something to offer the two of you? Yes. Do I believe you are just as intelligent and capable as I am. Yes. The fact is that there are tons of facts, documents, events, books, etc. that are downplayed and hidden from the minds of the general public. I have been shown the way to these materials by others…now if you simply don’t ‘want shit’ from me, then that’s fine. Although, it is a bit unreasonable. I for one soak up every drop of data that I can establish as reliable(to my knowledge and that of others).
Now…can you please stop aligning me with those rejects….I think I already mentioned that I have long admired Gandhi and M.L.K. (check out his last speeches if you haven’t).
Oh and If you look back you will see that I have been telling you where I stand from the get…Why do I get the feeling I’m being juiced? Maybe I should listen to the advice of some and just stop…I hate force feeding. No, I am not calling you babies, but seriously… If I am too inferior intellectually in your books, then I’ll stop bothering you with what you call ‘useless’ and I’ll fade away like the song by Junior Byles. I mean Jeez, I was called misguided after one post! Do you know what my main gripe with political denominations is? The same as nationhood. That people end up defending them so vehemently that when they are confronted with something considered to be on the other side, they shut down, and don’t want to hear it. Socialists and I don’t fair too much better. Especially when they find I am against war and abortion
September 17th, 2009 - 10:39
I guess I finally saw it with the “‘dito” comment. You know Pabs, you remind me of a friend of a friend, who went to my friend saying “boo hoo, sniff-sniff, he hit me, boo hoo” so naturally my friend asks “well, what happened? Did you do something to him?” She proceeded “I broke a plate over his head and it felt good so I did it again, and then a third time… but I don’t understand why he would have hit me”
You are, whether or not you acknowledge it or not, Pablo, being condescending. I think we may have all been a little guilty of it at some point or another in this ridiculously long thread with the comments about any of us being smarter than the other, but you WERE a big part of it. The problem was that we were speaking at each other rather than to. This is where I had the issue Chino. Again, I know what the reason behind it was, but you have always been great at stating the facts and that is what we need here, not insults or condescension.
Pablo, you need to stand for something and stop being so obtuse or ambiguous so as to propagate your agenda, whatever that may be. You state that you are against war and abortion, but you forget that the point of this particular thread was to discuss financial matters. You claim you are not a Socialist, but you give resounding credit to the success of the programs in this country that were based on the same. You seem to think that public service and socialist principles are somehow inextricably linked and yet, you repudiate our concerns about your Socialist affiliation. Tell us where you stand on the issue of an economic system, which is what we want here and then provide proof. You said “I could go on…There is a lot of proof that these circumstances are created.” Where is the proof? Where are the facts?
September 17th, 2009 - 20:13
Dude Ive been clear about where I stand. I think its obvious that no matter what report, book, or fact I bring up your MO is to prove me wrong. Lauri had it right from the start. Its like we can’t have a conversation. .. ‘dito is short for bendito… I’m talking down because I tried to lighten the mood by using Puerto Rican slang? Because I stated that Chino was still bothered/ insulted. Nah bro..It was in good humor. And I already stated that I was a part of the insults. Look, there are some books I have read that can clearly demonstrate these sorts of facts about the elite and the economy’s woes. Do you want them? Or are you unwilling to do what you called for all Americans to do in your first post on this thread…that is, to Question? Or am I being condescending by offering you a good read. Oh and last thing remember back in our first thread together I mentioned a last minute insurance deal by Silverstein on the towers…it had a special stipulation in it for the infinitismal posibility of jetliners hitting the towers…Also the times printed, only once, the day after the incident how more people called out of work that day than any other. Something like 4000 between the pentagon and the torres. A friend has the article. If you can come to question those Groups I mentioned before and seek, then brother, you shall see. But like with God, you’ve got to take the first step.
September 17th, 2009 - 20:20
Where’s my editor oops…its infinitesimal….